A woman celebrating the weekend before her 25th birthday was fatally shot Sunday when she hugged an off-duty police officer while dancing at a party, causing the officer’s service weapon to fire, according to police and her mother.
According to police Sgt. Stephens, the woman “embraced the officer from behind, causing the holstered weapon to accidently discharge.” The bullet punctured Miller’s lung and hit her heart, and she died at a hospital.
Full Story – HERE
WTF…. k my internal bullshit checklist goes: 1) Not April fools day 2) Is the story on other news sites?
It passes both those checks but I’m still trying to figure out how a holstered gun can miraciously spin around, aim at this womans lungs and discharge? That’s it… i’m not hugging any more cops after today… well maybe i’ll hug a few more today just to secure the memories… but after tomorrow i’m done for good.
Thoughts? Help me crack the case guys… I think we might even need to get Mythbusters on this one.
Hat tip: James K.
Comments
41 responses to “Hugging Cops Can Be Deadly”
Shoulder holsters sometimes point the gun rearward. If she somehow got a hand or something else inside the holster and somehow disengaged the safety (providing it was on) theres a chance she could have taken one in the lungs.
It went thru her lung and heart so unless she is like 4′ 10″ and he is 6′ 6″, that probably didnt happen.
But then wouldn’t that mean she bear-hugged him from behind?
Something else happened here, this story makes no sense.
Nevermind, I missed the line where it did say “from behind.” Derrr.
Whats sad is that cops are calling it an “accident”. This is someone who was not in control of your firearm.
I do not believe in accidental discharges – only negligent ones. If this was a civilian – they would be charged with a crime. Because hes a cop, his department will frame this as a ‘tragic accident’.
If you carry loaded – then you need to control your weapon. Its as simple as that.
i bet you believe in things like “precautions” and “accountability” too.
I used to work with a girl whose hugs always made me worry about an accidental discharge. Darn she was cute.
lol
*like*
Nice one…
If she was hugging the guy and also fiddling around with her fingers, she could have engaged the trigger of a firearm in a shoulder holster. If it was a revolver, no safety would likely be involved. If it was a Glock or similar, it is possible that the security strap already engaged the grip safety, especially if the pistol was loose enough to slide out of the holster to the point where the trigger was exposed.
Under these circumstances, it could maybe be described as an accident with contributing Moronism from the dead woman. Other than these circumstances, the officer failed gun safety.
A Glock with a grip safety? I don’t think so, I think you are on to something here.
An hypothesis:
Assumptions:
1) Gun is semi-auto (or at least lighter trigger pull than DAO or revolver)
2) Separate safety either not applied or not present (or might as well be not present eg Glock)
3) Gun carried in rear pointing shoulder holster
4) Holster has poor retention – no strap or strap not fastened
Scenario:
1) Initial contact – pre-hug if you like – has the effect of bumping gun forwards and loose.
2) Bear-hug from behind – woman’s left arm pushes gun sideways, forearm pushes gun back into holster
3) trigger snags on holster mouth and is “pressed” – BANG!
No fingers involved and other NDs have been recorded with similar “holster mouth pressed trigger” mechanism.
The hole in the glock theory is that it requires full travel of the trigger to discharge.
I would imagine that he was carrying a 1911 style pistol “cocked and locked”, that is one in the pipe with the hammer back. 1911’s have a nasty habit of dropping the hammer when the safety is disengaged if the internals are not up to snuff. kitchen table trigger jobs are notorious for this.
so, when she hugged him from behind she disengaged a loose safety, causing the hammer to drop.
this does not pass the sniff check to me.
Let’s just all agree that it’s a good thing a “civilian” wasn’t the one carrying or else this thing might actually be investigated!
Cops get away with the most heinous shit. Who’s to say if this is one of those cases? That’s the problem with rampant abuse of power. You guys ahemMIKEscuseme might be all fuzzy wuzzy with uncle LEO, but count me out.
This story is bullshit.
If you’re gonna hugging someone with a glock in shitty shoulder holster
You’re gonna have a bad time
I can’t think of a chain of events that makes this make sense. Apart from the cop freaked out when hugged from behind, turned and fired, then re-holstered and went “oops!”. Another question is “why is an off-duty cop at a house party?”. The part about the girl hugging everyone makes me think she was on X, which then leads me to believe everyone at the party was impaired by one drug or another (be it X or alcohol). If this gets investigated (and that’s a BIG if), I wouldn’t be surprised to see that the officer had been drinking or doing drugs.
Hell, two months ago a cop from the suburbs was high on duty and smashed a parked car with his cruiser. He got out on foot and ran away. Some if not most cops are more “Bad Lieutenant” than “Andy Taylor”.
I know it’s lame to reply to my own post, but just so people don’t think I’m making shit up about the police drug abuse problem in my city, here’s two links:
http://blogs.desmoinesregister.com/dmr/index.php/tag/police-officer-arrested/
http://whotv.com/2012/06/28/abuse-charge-fired-police-officer-jailed/
I suspect there’s a great deal more to this than we’re being told; nonetheless, it’s just one more reason to avoid any interaction with police – they’re hazardous to your health.
Agree with thebronze. I cannot see how this would be possible. FWIW, I’ve owned shoulder holsters for many years*, including Bianchi X-15s, Jack-Ass, 9Rs and some I don’t recall. No way this makes sense.
* I don’t have any now, wised up and don’t live in snow country.
Detroit police “accidently” shoots annoying drunk woman at party… *cough* BULLSHIT *cough*
Story should be called, “Stupid Bitch Hugs Worthless Cop”
What kind of fucking moron, especially as an officer, buys a holster that is a serious liability?
On a side note, WTF is wrong with today’s women? Where the only self-esteem they can get is from randomly hugging men or strangers they know less about than they do the Kardashians?
Whether or not the story is bullshit, I hope there is some kind of investigation into this issue, in regards to whether or not it’s true and/or if it really was an “accident” versus negligence.
No Folgers in my cup this morning…
Ive read the Detroit Police on and off duty regulations regarding approved guns, holsters and ammo. The only approved holsters for on or off duty officers are strong-side hip holsters and ankle holsters. Shoulder holsters are specifically banned–no exceptions. They carry the m&p40, which has a thumb safety. Older model glocks are also grandfathered in. Officers are allowed to carry certain 38sp revolvers and other guns as backups. So unless the officer was wearing a holster he wasnt supposed to be wearing, we can infer that he was wearing his duty weapon (glock or m&p) in at least a level 2 retention holster (possibly a level 3 since it is detroit and nothing that city does makes sense) on the strong side hip. The official story is complete BS and someone was doing something they werent supposed to be doing.
https://www.detroitmi.gov/Portals/0/docs/police/DPD%20Civil%20Rights/PENDING_304.1_Firearms.pdf
NICE find. I agree, this story is bulsh. Also the time this happened was 12:30am. This gets a lot more credence if it happens at 3:25 on a Wednesday….
just because there was a regulation doesn’t mean that it was being followed at the time. I know plenty of cops that have unapproved ankle holsters to carry at church and the like.
Funny that you mentioned revolvers… if the hammer on a revolver were pulled back 3/4 of the way (without engaging the sear on the trigger) then it is possible that if dropped it *could* set off a round.
But, All of the revolvers that I own have a safety mechanism that covers the firing pin unless the trigger is pulled, so I don’t know if this is possible or not, have to talk to a ‘smith. I would imagine that really old revolvers wouldn’t have the firing pin safety, but I doubt that he was carrying a Colt Single Action Army…
http://www.freep.com/article/20120709/NEWS01/207090367/Detroit-officer-s-gun-kills-woman-incident-under-investigation
The Department is saying it was holstered on his waist. Which makes this story all the more strange. Perhaps when she hugged him, the gun got knocked out of the holster and the officer tried to catch it?
“The weapon, a department-issued, 40-caliber Smith & Wesson semiautomatic pistol, was in a holster worn inside the officer’s waistband and was covered by his shirt,”
Um…what?? And exactly HOW does an ITW holster discharge from a hug, much less “tugging at his waist”?
A tragic loss for her family but this story and reporting is pissing me off… This makes zero sense. How does a gun, in a holster, worn in the waistband, and likely pointing down shoot this woman in the chest? This makes me think that her chest was probably somewhere around his thigh and that “hug from behind” is a euphemism; but even at that point how does the gun fire from inside a holster?
maybe tugging his pants down from behind while on her knees… god, idk. The incident doesn’t match the facts being given.
once again we will probably never know the truth because one of the parties is dead. I’m sure that the cop is being coached on his testimony AND the press releases are being carefully edited by the city attorney…
And just two days ago I was discussing how cops don’t shoot hippies anymore.
So… The gun was on the officers hip, and it hit her in the lung and heart? This situation is FUBAR.
The Detroit Police Dept. issues M&P 40s. I haven’t heard or seen where this was a Glock, did hear about it on the local news this morning.
Ok, maybe she had fallen down and then reached up grabbed the dude’s belt and “hugged” him as she pulled herself up using his holster to steady herself. No.. still sounds hinky to me.
Heard about this in the news today. Here’s what I gathered what his set up was:
– A semi-auto .40 S&W that’s standard issue for Detroit cops
– Was inside a neoprene holster (I imagine it would have been an IWB holster, but not for certain)
– Holster/Firearm was on his side
I only did a quick search online, but I’ve never heard of a neoprene holster designed for IWB… maybe he got some cheap holster and thought that was enough?
“Somehow, in the course of dancing with the individual to his rear and touching his waist, his Detroit Police Department-issued weapon discharged”
I think we are all thinking of the regular upright dance posture, not the bent over, grinding, getting your freak on dance posture that was most likely being employed in this case.
http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/article/Detroit-mom-questions-how-daughter-shot-during-hug-3693451.php#ixzz20AfaXQKj
Bullshit. Cover-up.
I’m thinking the dude was getting a blowie and had a “premature discharge”
I have had about three shoulder holsters — only one pointed backward — it was an on duty holster only to put the weight on my shoulders not the waist. I only had two extra mags in that config.
Even in that config you would have had to severely compress and pull the holster to my body and backwards, with my arms raised, to get an angle on a heart. The trigger was shielded by the holster. So she would have to release it.
I could see a lung shot. I can’t believe a heart shot.
A *holstered* gun just went off because of a hug… um… yeah fucking right. I bet the cop was either (A) trying to actually kill her, or (B) was not carrying his gun properly and is now simply creating a cover story so he doesn’t get jailed.
Unless… he was using one of those “windowed” holsters that don’t actually protect the trigger. That might do it.
On her knees in front of him holding his waist blowing him could make this possible
Agreed. By ‘from behind’, they mean ‘on her knees, from the front’.
SW MP 40, side holstered, complete with demonstration of how this is complete BS.
http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/story/18977832/2012/07/09/woman-killed-after-off-duty-detroit-officers-gun-goes-off