Department Of Homeland StackingOfAmmunition:
FXHummel1, trying really hard to get on some government lists :P . As you can see he’s wearing the ENDO 5.56x45mm t-shirt… nice choice.
If you don’t know what he’s talking about check out the article on the topic over at Forbes.
Thoughts?
Comments
24 responses to “The DHS Ammo Song”
Terrible songwriting. Misinformation from the wackos. He should read this: http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/04/04/The-Great-DHS-Ammunition-Stockpile-Myth
I agree, that song sucked. Also agree that it was full of misinformation. The DHS has had a good reason to stonewall Congress. I mean since they have nothing to hide, it makes sense they wouldn’t respond to these ludicrous claims for so long.
“The DHS has had a good reason to stonewall Congress.”
Well, I disagree with that; I hope you were being sarcastic. If Bis Sis had sent out the White Paper 3 or 4 months ago, it would have gone a long way toward alleviating the confusion and animosity that she has stirred up. It’s a sign of arrogance IMO.
Have you seen the white paper that I’m referring to?
not sure. are you referring to Napolitano’s recent remarks about why she didn’t respond? She said something like, we didn’t respond to Congress because we thought the allegations were too hard for anyone to believe.
No, it’s a summary of the ammo purchase and how they are used by DHS. It was given to Congressman Jeff Duncan R-SC on 3/28/12. If she had sent this out a few months ago, it would have answered a lot of questions. In the man time, Alex Jones and his cult fabricated a theory that DHS was ordering huge amounts and stockpiling them. Her arrogance (or ignorance) led her to ignore the requests and the rumors snowballed out of hand.
Here’s a link to the White Paper.
http://jeffduncan.house.gov/editorial/dhs-ammunition-procurement
It’s totally consistent with the numbers I’ve compiled into a database of DHS solicitations.
No, it’s a summary of the ammo purchase and how they are used by DHS. It was given to Congressman Jeff Duncan R-SC on 3/28/12. If she had sent this out a few months ago, it would have answered a lot of questions.
Look for “Jeff Duncan” and “White Paper” and “ammunition procurements”
thanks for the info.
Clearly the DHS is in the middle of a cold war.
This is by far my favorite song of his.
Civilians “stockpile” ammo ( a couple thousand rounds) = Dangerous villain
Government actually stockpiles ammunition = We’re just “training”/ being frugal.
I’m surprised more people aren’t at least a little put off by this hypocrisy. In the words of Judge Alex Kozinski;
“My excellent colleagues have forgotten these bitter lessons of history. The prospect of tyranny may not grab the headlines the way vivid stories of gun crime routinely do. But few saw the Third Reich coming until it was too late. The Second Amendment is a doomsday provision, one designed for those exceptionally rare circumstances where all other rights have failed – where the government refuses to stand for reelection and silences those who protest; where courts have lost the courage to oppose, or can find no one to enforce their decrees. However improbable these contingencies may seem today, facing them unprepared is a mistake a free people get to make only once.”
Techgnome: So how much ammo do you think DHS has stockpiled? How much do you think they have on hand?
It’s hard to say. But conservative estimates ( like those at Breitbart) mention contracts of 250,000 for one department, another for 90 million per year over five years and so on. But there are no solid, publicly available numbers of what is actually purchased and vs. actually used. It’s all just hearsay. And that’s what’s bugging so many Americans. The agencies tasked with responding to domestic issues buying millions of rounds each year, which could quickly adds up to billions, with no genuine accountability. If they stopped training they would likely have enough bullets for at least a small war.
Wow! I have to give you credit for being little more informed than most. Perhaps I can share some info with you. First, Here’s a link to a response Sen Tom Coburn received, outlining the amounts purchased, used and in inventory by the various agencies under DHS. If you watched the C-Span meeting this week with Napolitano and Sen Coburn, he indicated that this response had satisfied his questions.
http://www.coburn.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?a=Files.Serve&File_id=9cde768f-bb3a-4fd9-8176-1745c21519c2
There’s a lot more information available to the public. What else would you like to know? I might have it, and I might not. Ask any question you like.
Thanks. I didn’t know about that info. Now if we could just get letters like that from Eric and Hillary.
Have you seen the Briet-Bart article/link and the White Paper that Congresssman Jeff Duncan has from DHS?
Eric and Hi-liar-y? Wouldn’t mean much, would it?
Next, have you read this Breitbart story? It supersedes a previous story http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/04/04/The-Great-DHS-Ammunition-Stockpile-Myth.
Next message hit the mod. Try searching for “Breitbart” and “The Great DHS ammunition stockpile myth”
Why is this TNUGA guy all over this post and every person who comments?
Any one remember seeing him before?
Props FXHummel1. Loved the play on words.
Who is Roman Scott, and what difference does it make? This blog is open to the public and it is commenting on an issue and right that I take very seriously.
Do you disagree with my opinions? No problem, that’s your privilege.
Do you disagree with anything I’ve posted as fact? If so, feel free to ask questions. If I’m wrong, I’ll own it. Fair enough?
TNUGA, I noticed:
1. Your every comment came within a standardized window after the original
2. You also seem to have a need to confront every one on this politically sensitive issue with bully like style of over-saturation and passive-aggressive tactics.
3. The frequency and timing of your comments and replies are very similar.
4. I don’t recall you ever commenting before.
5. Your replies have an automated feel to them as they are often strange in their timing, repetitiveness, context, and double postings.
All these things point to a paid shill with an auto-bot. I feel the community that visits this blog should be aware, because they do exist.
Should you not be, touche.
Frankly, I could care less about debating an issue that lacks substantial evidence in either direction. There are far too many ways around the soft evidence and hearsay you’ve provided; which, by the way, cannot be considered fact.
What cannot be refuted is the attitude and posturing from DHS has allowed this idea to grow and flourish. Even if it is not true, the excessive use of over-militarized police forces in both Boston and California, and their complete/mandatory shut down is far more damaging to our current freedoms.
With never ending paper trails and red-tape there would be no way to prove DHS’s actions or motivations. However, one can clearly see DHS’s effect on our country in just these two recent events.
Roman:
“1. Your every comment came within a standardized window after the original” -I have no idea what you are referring to.
“2. You also seem to have a need to confront every one on this politically sensitive issue with bully like style of over-saturation and passive-aggressive tactics.” So, are you a self-appointed psychiatrist?
“3. The frequency and timing of your comments and replies are very similar.” On this forum or others?
“4. I don’t recall you ever commenting before.” I just saw this site today.
“5. Your replies have an automated feel to them as they are often strange in their timing, repetitiveness, context, and double postings”.-Perhaps due to a post getting held by the moderator. If that happens, i sometimes, re-word it and send a 2nd post after sending the first one.
“All these things point to a paid shill with an auto-bot. I feel the community that visits this blog should be aware, because they do exist.” – You are really paranoid aren’t you! Here’s the deal: I’m in the music business, with numerous gold and platinum recordings to my credit. I own two business now. I am a staunch conservative with a carry permit in my state. My favorite hobby is whitetail hunting and i have about 10 trophy bucks on my wall, but my family eats what i kill.
When I first heard about the alleged 1.6 billion rounds being purchased by DHS i was pretty concerned, like a lot of my friends. I read a lot of the stuff at info wars and other sites and took a good look at my supplies. I don’t think I would be called a prepper, but I do have 4 safes and a safe room. Then, I noticed some inconsistencies and started doing my own research into this issue. I’ve spent probably 150 hours in the last 2 months digging around. I’ve placed phone calls to 3 of the Federal Law Enforcement Training Centers and spoken directly with individuals involved in the training of DHS agents.
So, what did I find? Overall, I’d say my level of trust for Alex jones and his crown has sunk to the level of trust I have for Obama, Napolitano, and Bill & Hillary. You may think that there’s not enough evidence to debate any of this in either direction, and that;’s OK. I’m simply that I am now satisfied with the evidence to these two things:
1. DHS has NOT purchased 1.6 Billion rounds (or 2 billion) of ammo in the last 12 months.
I”ve spent a lot of time going through the FBO site (and checking it against other sources)
to the extent that I’m confident is saying that the DHS has only issued solicitations for 942 Million rounds since January 2011, the last 28 months. Of those solicitations, which are merely invitations to submit bids, they have issued 18 contracts, totaling 646 million rounds. Of that, 615 million are on two 5-year contracts that extend into 2016.
2. Our current ammo shortage is not due to DHS purchases, it’s due to purchases and panic buying by us gun owners. I’m a numbers guy, OK? Here’s the deal: DHS actually purchases about 120 million rounds per year. That’s it, and its been that way for several years. I’ve gone through the annual reports of Olin (Winchester Ammo) and ATK (Federal). I’ve bought industry research reports on the ammo business. Best I can tell, US ammo makers make at least 10 billion rounds per year. The DHS is purchasing less than 1.5% of that. (I can post more specifics on this if you’d like.
Beyond that, if you want to talk about concerns about how DHS handles things, especially at the top, I’m probably with you.
However, with what I’ve learned, I’m gonna say that I am no longer concerned about how much ammo DHS has bought or plans to buy. Thier ammo stock, about 270 million rounds on hand as ov 11/20/2012 pale in comparison of the billions of runds in the closets and safes of America’s 110 million gun owners. DHS has 72,000 armed agents; gun owners havee thenm outnumbers about 1000 to 1. I feel pretty good about those odds. What worries me is the true agenda items Obama wants to accomplish:
-Laws to reduce our access to guns and ammo. WE dodged a bullet this week, but he won’t let it go.
-Foreign relations that cozy up to our sworn enemies.
-Bigger Government
-Higher taxes and higher federal spending
-Socialistic policies and elimination of states rights
I could go on, but I guess I’m just appalled at how conservatives have been duped on the amount to ammo that truly has been purchased. It makes us look really gullible to liberals and I hate that. I want my side to be intelligent and informed.
OK, that’s a little of my rant. i’m not trying to crash whatever little club y’all have here; I thought it was a public forum, so I threw in my $0.02 I registered, so whoever owns this blog has my email. You know it’s a valid email because that’s how I know someone has responded.
I’ll post two more things:
1. Where the 2 million rumor started.
2. Why DHS isn’t causing the shortage.
After that, I’ll only post if asked a question on here, and y’all can continue ruminating on your rumors, OK?
Where Did the 2 Million Rounds Rumor Get Started?
This is just my opinion and it should be taken strictly as my personal opinion, OK? My opinion is that these numbers have been stated by Alex Jones’ website, Infowars.
Here are the facts as I see them.
1. July 13, 2012, a 5-year contract for165 million rounds of .223 ammo was awarded to Federal on Solicitation Number HCEMS-12-R-00002. It was an “Indefinite delivery/Indefinite Qty” contract for up to 33 million rounds per year.
2. On March 12, 2012 a 5-year contract for 450 million rounds of .40 cal S&W ammo was awarded to Federal on Solicitation HCEMS-11-R-00004. It was an “Indefinite delivery/Indefinite Qty” contract for up to 90 million rounds per year. With some smaller contracts, that brings the number up to something under 650 million.
3. On August 13, 2012, Infowars ran an article about a new solicitation, proclaiming it was for another 750 million rounds. The August 13 article is still up and is titled, “DHS To Purchase Another 750 /Million Rounds Of Ammo.” The article is in reference to solicitation number HSFGL-12-B-00003.
In paragraph 3 of the article is a blue link, “The PDF file.” Although the paragraph describes it as “750 million rounds, you can print out the PDF and add it up yourself. Total rounds on the order are 63,256,000, not 750 million. Interestingly enough, at this point, it appears that the contract for this ammo has not been awarded as far as I can determine.
4. Infowars subsequently arrived at a total of 1.4 million rounds, a total it proclaimed in articles on Sept. 5 and 6.
5. Later, a solicitation for 200 million rounds of .223 ammo was issued on solicitation number HSCEMS-12-R-00015. Infowars touted the 1.6 Billion number in a September 19, 2012 article titled, “DHS Buys 1.6 Billion Bullets.” Again, as far as I can tell, no contract has been awarded on this solicitation.
6. Then, in February 18, 2013, Infowars announced that it was up to 2 billion rounds. I have no earthly idea of how they increased to 2 billion other than a line stating, “Federal non-military agencies have bought two billion rounds of ammunition in the last 10 months.” Perhaps they added in FBI, I just don’t know.
7. In summary, since January 2011, DHS has issued solicitations totaling about 942 million rounds, and they have awarded 18 contracts totaling 646 million rounds during that time.
You can still find this stuff on Infowars and the FBO site.
Regarding the use of Hollow Point Ammo, I’ll mention this: Hollow point is the load of choice for Law Enforcement and Home Defense. It expands upon entry and transfers more energy to the target. It is less likely to pass through and cause collateral injury to others. Expanding bullets were prohibited in warfare by the Hague Convention of 1899. ( A sure sign that someone doesn’t know their stuff is someone who tries to tell you they were outlawed by the Geneva Convention)
Please let me know if you have questions. If you think I have something incorrect, let me know. If I’m wrong, I’ll own it.
Fair enough?
The shortages AREN’T due to DHS buys; they’re due to ammo purchased by the public. Here’s why I say that:
1. I looked up history of FBI Background checks for guns. They were up 13% over 2011 from Jan-Oct 2012. After the stolen election & Sandy Hook, Nov-Feb 2013 was up 47%. 47% is a HUGE increase! Most people don’t buy a gun w/o buying some ammo, too.
BG checks for 2012 were over twice the number in 2005!!
2. People who already have guns are buying more. I’ve bought more handgun ammo than I did in the previous 3 yrs. put together. I was afraid I would not be able to get it if BHO was successful in his desire for new gun laws.
3. People moving to reloading makes components hard to find. You might say that DHS purchases are causing shortages of brass, lead, & powder. Not true! Why? Last time I looked at Bass Pro, they were BO’d on every reloading press &
MidwayUSA was BO’d on over 85%. DHS ain’t buying presses! It’s us!
4. I’ve looked up info from the ammo makers, like this comment from Olin’s (Winchester) 2012 Annual report:
“Winchester’s sales were $617.6 million for 2012 compared to $572.0 million in 2011, an increase of $45.6 million or 8%. Sales of ammunition to domestic commercial customers were higher by $49.8 million. This increase was offset by a REDUCTION in shipments to law enforcement agencies of $5.0 million. Shipments to military & international customers were comparable to last year.”
5. From Olin’s 4th qtr. report:
”The Winchester business began to experience increased demand around the time of the ELECTION and the elevated level of demand continued through the balance of the year. Fourth quarter 2012 COMMERCIAL volumes INCREASED in excess of 20% compared to the fourth quarter of 2011.” (Commercial sales exclude LE and military sales)
You can find these 2 reports at Olin’s site under “Investors” and “SEC filings”
6. Smaller manufacturers sell mostly to commercial outlets. Hornady recently reported that only 5 % of their ammo and bullets go to government entities, yet they cannot meet demand. Some of their items are being produced 24 hours a day.
7. Most of the DHS stuff hasn’t shipped. It’s on 5-yr contracts (1 yr. w/4 options) & they’re “indefinite delivery/Indefinite quantity” contracts (look it up) that don’t obligate the feds to buy the entire qty. It just sets the terms & allows them to buy
as needed according to the terms and prices agreed upon in the contract.
8. IF DHS had actually bought 1.6 Billion rounds in the last 10 months, that would still be only 16% of the 10 billion made each year by US ammo manufacturers. They actually purchased “only” 103 million in 2012, about 1% of domestic ammo production. Even if they doubled their purchases, that would not explain the shortages.
9. Based on what I’ve found, ammo purchases by gun owners have increased by 25 to 45% in the last few months. The system could not adjust quickly enough. As a capital-intensive industry, you can’t just ramp up capacity that quickly.
Think about this: If all of us immediately started driving 30-40% more miles every day, what would happen? There would be gas shortages and lines everywhere. The infrastructure for that kind of quick increase is not there. That’s what happened with ammo.
You can believe whatever you want, but the DHS isn’t the cause of the shortages. The numbers do not support that theory. if you have serious questions, post them here. I might have an answer. If you have a serious, fact-based comment, I’ll consider it.
Well done FXHummel1!! Good tune.