They talk about it in this video starting at 2:00:
These two seem like genuinely nice people, so I was hesitant to write this post… but then I though what the hell… so here goes. First of all let me start off by saying I wish them the best of luck. Now my main question is their qualifications… (3:19) Cory says they are going to be offering Defensive Handgun, CCW, Tactical Rifle, Tactical AK, and a Ladies only class which Erika will instruct. Erika has been shooting for 1 year. Granted she could out shoot me any day of the week and probably roundhouse the Cheeto dust off my mouth for talking shit about her skillz. I think most people like to take training courses from people that are ex-military or ex-Law Enforcement… that said, Chris Costa from Costa Lupus (Yea I know it’s “Ludus” but I hate the way the name sounds) is an ex-coast guard and people listen to what he has to say like he’s Jesus. Maybe Cory is the up-and-coming young Costa that the shooting world wants/needs? I have to laugh at what Al said to me in email though… “He’s got tattoos and facial hair, isn’t that enough?” (regarding qualifications) haha
They say they are going to bring in other instructors too, like Buck Yeager. That part sounds like a decent idea… acting as the middle man can likely guarantee a pretty nice cut for them, with very little risk (unless a photographer gets shot, which i’m still surprised hasn’t happened yet).
Thoughts? Good or bad idea to capitalize on their YouTube fame? Would you take a course from them?
Hat tip: Al
Comments
68 responses to “Cory And Erika Start A Firearms Training School”
Bullpup M1A? They couldnt think of a more dangerous design for the shooter? Wouldnt want my face that close to the reciever.
A couple inches as opposed to at most a foot? Its not a big difference. Anyways as far as bullpups go, go to the RFB forums, several people have experienced case head separations, no one has lost their face.
How then would you explain the uptick in people watching Face/Off on Netflix?
Would I take a course from them? No. Firstly I can’t, I am not based in the US. But secondly, while Corey is obviously well drilled and he is following all the training he can do. He doesn’t strike me as a great teacher, yet, you have to start somewhere. For me that somewhere is when they’re experienced (at seeing white elephants or not) and impart information in a manner that has become theirs. At the moment I believe Corey to be reciting everything he has been taught thus far, but none of it has his stamp on it. If he cannot put his own experience on it, why do I not just go to the source? And possibly shoot a photog as well ;-)
I agree, I don’t mean any disrespect to anyone involved, it just seems premature to start teaching what they’ve learned. I don’t know their background, and I haven’t cared to investigate, but neither appear experienced enough yet.
…said the guy drinking a caramel latte after four am.
You don’t need combat experience to teach fundamentals. However, when you title a course “defensive ____”, you may want to have some basis for why your techniques are sound. That said, I doubt many instructors have combat experience. I’m looking for training, but can’t find a trainer that isn’t at least a little Mall Ninja. I won’t attend a school that teaches solo house-clearance (that’s a platoon level task in your 7-8), knife-fighting as a primary defense, or going hands-on with a gun in your hand. That seems to rule out about 99% of schools. I guess all that mall ninja shit sells.
I don’t expect them to have combat experience. I wish them the best of luck in their business.
Would you want people taking drivers ed from the couple in town who have been driving a lot for a year?
That isn’t enough to make a decision on.
As an infantry combat veteran from oif, I don’t even I think I have enough experience to open up a training school. I think it’s laughable that so many people that take one or two classes somewhere and had never been in a life or death situation with a weapon open up schools and offer classes like tactical rifle or defensive handgun. This isn’t limited to them, I see it all over the place nowadays with people trying to get rich like Haley and costa did.
My sentiment exactly. Corey might be good at what he does, but when I look for instructors, I’m looking for people with a LOT of life experience who’ve been there and done that. To me, that’s as important as technique. Having an ex-cop tell me what he noticies criminals doing in certain situations is more difficult knowledge to obtain than something I can teach myself like repetition drills for clearing weapons malfunctions.
I spent 5 years in the military, 1 year (so far) as a contractor in Iraq, and currently a Firefighter/SRT Medic. I have no where near the qualifications to instruct anyone. All the instructors I take courses from have atleast 1 decade of experience of constant action. It seems that if you have good advertising (modern day internet helps), and if you have been to Iraq or Afghanistan 1 time, and taken a few courses makes you qualified to teach. I think its fucking bullshit. No matter how nice, friendly they seem
In the world of firearms instructors, we tend to emphasize the firearm and downsize the instructor or teacher side, which is a bad mistake. As a guy who has some experience as an 11B and a year in Iraq, unless you are looking for a course specifically needing that skill set, it’s worthless credentials for teaching civilian defensive handgun skills. Taking a bunch of courses (especially from only one school) but lacking any experience in adult learning theory leads me to think no teaching will occur, just parroting what someone else said. A top tier instructor will understand why they teach what they teach and have the experience to teach a student how to grasp the concept. I had a three day carbine and handgun course with Tiger McKee. On the first evaluation, Tiger looked at me doing something poorly (and had done so for years) and gave me a simple drill that cured the problem. That’s one of the differences between a true teacher and someone who can merely repeat what someone else has told them – the ability to diagnose and correct the student.
Great points. Teaching is not as easy as many might think. I think that we often oversimplify the process and turn it into monkey see monkey do.
This is where we are at as a society. How qualified you are and your actual knowledge is secondary. How you present yourself and your “celebrity” seems more important to 90% of the population. I can’t hate on them for exploiting this fact. Would I want to learn from someone with one year of experience? Not unless it was free, my only choice, or she was hot even without her sunglasses off.
Drop the off at the end.
This is the gun equivalent of all those Karate schools that opened in the mid-80’s. 95% of them went bust inside a year, I think this will be no different, except the speed at which they fail as equipment for firearms training is far more expensive
definitely agree with harry
There are a lot of these schools that open up, teaching questionable methods and bullshido. There seems to be a market for people teaching mall ninja tactics and good for them getting Obama to help them build their business. I know when I’m looking for classes to take, I look deep at the instructors. I would not waste my time on a class, unless it was a basic safety class, where an instructor has just one year of experience with a resume padded with youtube channel views. I also like to see instructors who can prove they can shoot (USPSA class A or IDPA Masters) – not the practiced dance shooting that ADE puts on and teaches.
With that said, I’m sure they’ll have a line full of cheap LA Police Gear Tactical pants wearing overweight 30 year old IT guys waiting to take classes taught by Erica in her Daisy Dukes. Maybe they’ll even throw some photographers down range too.
Instead of training school why don’t they call it what it is? A chance too shoot with your favorite YouTube couple. They could charge for that and it wouldn’t irritate me or most anybody else in the slightest.
When I first saw the video, that was my thought. Instead of a calling it training, why not like “Tactical Shooting with Cory and Erika. Hang out and shoot with famous YouTubers!” Shit I’d pay for that, long as it’s not like $600.
But I was thinking on the quals etc side of things, and seeing the comments. Long as it doesn’t turn into monkey see monkey do what Yeager does, it might work out. However the way I’m seeing this happening on a smaller scale (because they actually shoot and shoot GOOD, and have taken courses) is the equivalent of some guy watching the Magpul videos, then taking his bud to the range and “teaching” him how to shoot by copying what he saw.
I do wish them luck and such, I just personally think they both need more time/courses under their belts and from different instructors.
Having seen how completely unimportant it is for an instructor to have Mil or LE background as a measurement of credibility or skillset in regards to instructing, I have no problem taking youtube allstars like these guys. The proof is in the pudding. If you come away from training from anyone and it improves your confidence in firearms basics and actually having improved your shooting ability, sense of awareness, mindset, etc. then it’s worth the money to help build up those instructors..even if they’re computer nerds by day and shooters on the weekend.
If you have modest skills in firearms basics (no tactics needed), and know how to teach people (not just content), it doesn’t matter if you’re not a 50 year force recon seal ranger ninjafied operator. Heck, I’m a computer nerd by day and in a recent NRA pistol instructor class I took, I outshot two marines (one a firearms instructor), and a 18 year LAPD vet who spent 12 on swat…and some army armorer/instructor. Does it mean I know more about gun training, no, but it means I have better skill at 15 yards on a static range…nothing to get excited about, but the point being, resumes don’t mean jack to me.
I was thinking on similar lines. Lack of previous LE or Mil experience doesn’t bother me in the least if I’m taking a class. Combat experience does not always mean a good instructor.
Resume matters to me when they bill the class as “Defensive _____” because the implication is “this is how you survive a gun fight”. If you haven’t been in one, then you probably don’t really know what works and what doesn’t. I’ve been in a few and wouldn’t start my own school, mainly because I was just an average 11B20.
They should bill it as “IDPA/IPSC/USPSA ______” because you’re learning how to run a course on a static range quickly. I would bet Cory and Erika could outshoot me on a given course of fire, but I bet if you put us on opposite sides of the Alingar valley, I would win. Mindset and experience being the difference.
Does a gunfight give you any more advantage or translatable training any more than watching a youtube clip of Travis Haley talking about popping a village chief with his 45 after the chief’s AK pointed at him but the safety was off? MIL/LE folks get in gun fights plenty but it doesn’t make them ANY better at teaching a reactive principle. It provides good perspective and makes for good stories so that students know you’re a badass…but students don’t care how much of a badass their trainer is in my experience. In fact, it gets old when an instructor continually cites his brushes with death. It’s not like your gunfight is going to bring anything new to bear that other experts with equal or greater experience can bring, respectively. After all, you can’t bring your students back in time to your gunfight. All you can do is share the thoughts and reactions you had and hope it translates, right? Any kid can regurgitate a magpul video verbatim, and possibly even mimic their movement…like Corey seems to do. In fact, about 99% of what I see him do is what I do when I shoot and it’s almost exactly what Travis Haley does. Heck, I could do classes and plagiarize Costa and Haley all day long and some of that training may be of value to a student…and for much less $$. lol
Again, like others have said, being a skillful teacher is what’s most important..the material is out there and techniques can be learned quickly and passed on. Credentials be dammed.
We are talking at crossed purposes. I agree that experience doesn’t make a teacher. What I’m saying is that I’m sick of fantasy commandos telling average Joe that if they take their “Defensive _______” he will be ready for action. That’s why I’m dead set against schools that teach that you SHOULD try to clear your house by yourself, or that you SHOULD get into a knife fight, or that you’re ready for a gun fight after a two day course.
Also, you don’t know what you’re going to do under fire until you’re under fire. Some people freeze, others turn into Rambo. I would caution “trainers” on teaching “Defensive _____” until they’re used it in a gun fight or have reliable reports that it is effective. If is isn’t field-tested, then it isn’t sound theory yet.
I haven’t been able to take these guys seriously since the punching bag video.
I was just thinking about that… there are several videos I couldn’t finish. That isn’t a good sign. But, like I said, I wish them the best of luck.
Whatever your views on Cory and Erika, the bottom line is this: If you have a loved one, and they might possibly be in a situation that requires them to defend themselves…would you rather have them taught by novices or seasoned veterans?
Some training is better than none, but still.
Even if they had the qualifications to teach (which they don’t), James Yeager (their teacher) isn’t known to be a top tier instructor.
Also, I rescind my Erika is hot opinion. Total butterface.
I agree completely about the qualifications part, neither one of them have any experience (unless their hiding something) in Mil/LE, so I’m not sure why they are doing this. Also, I wanted to add that Chris Costa, and the Coast Guard in general, does some fairly badass stuff, they don’t just check people’s life vests to make sure they are within specs.
When I was the OOIC of a USN boarding party I did plenty of boardings with our USCG LEO Dets. Nothing badass about what we did. Just plain board/search. It ain’t Ranger stuff, it’s just boarding/searching.
I consider SAR, etc. to be fairly impressive. Also, Costa trained other countries within the Coast Guard, so he already had experience with firearms training. I have also met someone who was involved with the National Maritime Law Enforcement Academy, which Costa was a part of and he had some pretty cool stories to tell about his time there.
SAR don’t go armed with anything bigger than a syringe needle.
Actually we were called LEDETS, not Leo Dets, which is short for Law Enforcement Detachment. It was search and boarding for the USN, but LEDETS are part of Tactical Law Enforcement Teams (TACLETS) which are FBI SWAT trained. Now the TACLETS and the newer MSST’s have even more capabilities. somewhere floating around the SEAL teams are 2-3 USCG SEALS that will serve with the Navy and then rotate back to the USCG. I’m a plankowner of TACLET South and looking to start my own firearms/first aid school in southern CA.
USCG Seals? You’re High.
They’re just riding their wave of popularity. Hopefully it’ll die soon enough. I’m not saying that you need lots of the usual experience to be a qualified instructor, but these two aren’t even great shooters. They’re basically playing tactical dress-up and shooting worse than most of the competition shooters that I know. They’re certainly more qualified to teach than a couple of YouTube “stars.”
There’s a lot more to defensive shooting than “This is how you draw and present”. There’s a mental aspect to it that I don’t know that these two have. Do you HAVE to have combat experience to teach it? No, but it helps. There are plenty of good instructors who have never been military or law enforcement, but they’ve spent years in the field.
For the life of me, I can’t help but feel this is just a move to cash in on their internet fame. And good for them I guess. But I have serious doubts about the quality of what they can teach, given their limited experience.
what a bunch of garbage.. why couldnt they have started a strip club?
The only thing worse then “tactical operator fantasy camp” horseshit, is “tactical operator fantasy camp” horseshit taught by fantasy tactical operators.
*than
Why would anyone chose to take lessons from them rather than any of the multitude of well established instructors throughout the country? It’s not like there’s a shortage of qualified instructors if one’s willing to travel.
Damn Paul, almost swallowed my dip, buddy. What a marvelous idea!
“Why couldnt they have started a strip club?”
Chuckle, chuckle, chuckle…..
Their matching holsters are cute. But no, I wouldn’t pay for training from anyone that hasn’t been in a life and death situation and was able to take away from it. I like the strip club idea though.
“she could out shoot me any day of the week and probably roundhouse the Cheeto dust off my mouth for talking shit about her skillz”
For amount of shit that the ENDO-Mike talks (his blog= his rules, i got it) I figured he could shoot at least right below operator level.
Being good with a gun is not a requirement for talking shit about stupid people that do stupid things. The only requirement is common sense, which isn’t very common anymore.
Also, he is probably a decent shot.
He should just make her a channel on cam4 or something if the you tube revenue isn’t cutting it anymore.
No, i wouldn’t take classes from them. i remember learning to teach people, it was a shitload of work (way more than i imagined) and rightly so. you might as well sign up for shooting with the kardashians imo
I’m of the view that they are not the instructors for me. My instructor doesn’t have to have been in a Life & Death situation. But I’ll trust a thirty year LE vet that only had to pull once or twice more than “kids”. It would be nice to watch her for a day in a classroom. But that’s about it.
I’ve seen them both shoot in their video’s. I won’t be taking any classes from them.
No. Their Resumes shows a complete lack of prior experience in the field.
Let them keep making videos and getting a few cents from the advertisement. I guess if they look at the videos as a hobby they’ll have a blast. But the idea that this ingénue young lady and the unshaven overly tatooed kid are to be taken serious in the field of weapons training is beyond rational belief.
I’m about as far from being a tactical shooter as you can get, having no military or LEO experience, having no “top tier” training by Famous People, and I have not shot a single competition. The following opinion in therefore worthless. :)
Don’t confuse experience with competence. Don’t assume that someone with experience and knowledge has the necessary skillset to effectively transmit that experience.
That’s it.
I’ve been very fortunate to have some truly great teachers in my life. They weren’t necessarily those with the most expertise in a given subject, but had incredible skill and talent for reading their students and finding a way to reach them and impart the knowledge they were trying to convey. There is a certain level of teaching skill and technique that can be learned, and a certain level is simply a gift from God. The best teachers have both, and everything else flows from that.
Ideally, we’d all be able to find instructors that are highly competent, broadly experienced, and excellent teachers. If I have to skimp on any of these ideal qualities (and in real life you will), I’m going with the best educator I can find as my primary qualification.
Just my $0.02.
I may be the best teacher in the world but if I try to teach you how to speak Mandarin, which I learned from Rosetta Stone and I’ve never set foot in China, you should ask for your money back.
THIS
The most ridiculous part of this video is actually that M1A based bullpup that they are touting. For the price of that thing, or maybe even less, you could go buy a 16″ LMT MWS and actually own a decent rifle.
All of these tacticool, wannabe mall ninjas on an ego trip has really been turning me away from guns lately. I agree that credentials isn’t the end all for teaching, especially in my experience from college where I had a lot of teachers with Ph.Ds. To this day though, the best teacher I have ever had was my high school physics teacher who only had a BA degree and no experience other than teaching high school, so I can see the point that an introductory firearms course doesn’t need a combat veteran to be useful.
Another thing to consider though, is that being good at shooting and looking cool defending yourself isn’t nearly as important as the legal aspects which most of these instructors have zero credentials in. How many firearm instructors have you seen that have combat experience, been to law school, and have dealt with the criminal justice system? Prior cops may have some knowledge in this, but not to the extend that a lawyer would. Who here could possibly argue that shooting a person laying on their back twice in the face, then jumping on top of them and pistol whipping them is sound legal judgement. Apparently these future instructors of dangerous toys don’t have a problem with it, and will certainly be sharing similar wisdom with gullible students.
Firearms hobbyists need to really take a strong stand on the side of reality and sound legal judgement instead of wisdom derived from hollywood and made up/overhyped stories. We need more people like Hickok45 and less like James Yeager, Cory/Erika, and other dangerous mall ninjas out there. Who else wants to be the next George Zimmerman? Keep listening to these people’s advice and you may find yourself there.
If being tactical is your kind of fun, then there is nothing wrong with doing so in a safe and responsible manner. What’s not legitimate is this view that military tactics are useful on the streets or in your house for self defense which more and more of these charlatans are making money off of teaching. I also feel this new view that “tactical is cool” is taking this country down the wrong road, with police arming up like the military and raiding peoples homes using these tactics over some plants (war on drugs) or even internet piracy in some cases.
I just pulled my subscription to Sturmgewehre’s channel as well and won’t be watching anymore of his videos for supporting these clowns; I’m not feeding people who support those taking the hobby in the negative direction.
I don’t understand some of the comment logic. When we went to school did our teachers teach us their own ideas or from someone else? When you played a sport, how did you first learn? From what your coach or parent taught you. Point being, it’s obvious they, especially Corey, has had a lot of “range time.” And not time but experience. No maybe not as much as Costa or Haley, but then again what’s the price difference in the classes? To say you wouldn’t take their class because they jut show you what they have learned sounds ignorant. You get taught then you add your spin on it. I think their class would be fun, would be informative, and I would take a class with them probably before the ex police officer that even though has 40years experience has not taken an update skills class himself in 15years….my two cents :)
right now diesel… i have even heard haley say that what they teach isnt their own, that they teach the same concept they have learned.
all of you need to do some back ground work before talking crap, cory has been doing this for awhile, the girl which is only teaching a girls class is the one with little experience.. makes me laugh how everything one thinks they are all bad asses… just shut the f up. this is america and god bless them for creating their own busienss and making something of themselves. just bc you guys suck and have no drive….nothing but haters on here..i wish people would just ..live and let live…
I am a firearms instructor and I mean no offense when I say this, but from what I have personally seen on the line, LEO or Military experience does not imply that someone has even basic firearms experience. Except Marines. I have not had a Marine on the line who was not capable with a rifle.
That said, teaching and doing are two different things. I wish them the best and look forward to learning form them soon.
I would much rather be taught by people with life experience and teaching skills. That being said if I ever went to a course the instructors background would be a top priority. From my own combat experiences I have seen how things learned in training change drastically when in combat. Why would anyone choose these two instead of someone else? There’s no lack of options.
First off, I see Cory and Erika as a lot more positive for the sport than the hot head Yeager.
They’re a skills school. There are other schools that teach the legal end. Mas Ayoob does a pretty good job of that if you can deal with his ego.
Second, as some mentioned, mil or LE background doesn’t necessarily qualify a person to teach firearms. I’ve seen a number of well known law enforcement people that aren’t nearly as skilled as they think they are and a couple of them have been nationally published. Besides, what can a former or current LEO teach about concealed carry? Most won’t have that experience from work.
Third, as an instructor of other vocations, being able to convey information effectively is the most important part of instruction, followed by the grade of material. If you’re a crap instructor, it doesn’t matter how good the material is.
Fourth, I’d question the credentials of a defensive or concealed carry instructor who had more than one engagement. It means they can’t teach the most important aspect, avoidance.
And last, most lawyers don’t know shit about self defense and lethal force. I’ve sat in an Ayoob class with several and every one of them said it was material they’d never been taught in school.
.
I dont think I would learn much from either of them . But as long as she continues to be an “instructor” I think people will sign up.
I’ve been to class of their’s and learned quite a bit. Cory easily diagnosed many issues the shooters out there were having. Granted none of the people out there were really experienced but that’s the beauty of the classes they teach. Their classes are inexpensive, excellent course for a novice shooter, and if live in Indiana/Illinois and you aren’t willing to travel far for your first class then this is a great place to learn.
I’ve been shooting for 17 years but hadn’t taken a single live fire course. Before their class I couldn’t get a tight grouping at 25m to save my life. Now I could hit a 8″ plate all day long.
First of all, some people are like, OHH SNAP I NEED A DELTA NAVY SEAL RANGER SWAT SNIPER LEET Member to learn from. Bottom line is this, These two have more applicable knowledge then 95 percent of the people that are going to be striving to take these kinds of courses. The things they preach and teach are legit principles to keep civilian ass’ on the better side of things in the chance that things go down and they’re lives or freedoms are threatened. If anyone feels that they are the bee’s knee’s or super operator bad ass then they can go take class’ from Haley, Costa, Yeager, Mucilek or any of the other 100’s of “Credential Certified Trainers” I feel like there credentials of having costa, and haley and yeager and other very big names in this business their and taking their training courses and or teaching at their range and having personal interviews endorsing these two is a huge deal and warrants plenty of credit to teach civilians how to train properly and how to increase their survival rates in our society, if something was to transpire. Bottom line, they have put in more time to perfecting their fundamentals over the last couple years then 90 percent of these operator wanna be’s that reside on the internet will ever dedicate in their lives. You dont need the back ground to justify your skill set. You need the knowledge and practical application time *Training* to teach the general public and bring them as a whole to MUCH higher standard. I have taken many training courses * Defensive Pistol, Defensive Hand to hand, A Version of Fighting Rifle as the kids call it now a days, vip extraction ect* I’ve done martial arts for a long time in krav and akido. The some of these courses that were taught by Ex LEO’s and Military and they are dip shits… I’ve literally asked for my money back and walked straight out. Just cause you have the “” Range Time “” IRL doesn’t make you an expert or even make your opinion worth any more then someone elses. Just my 2 cents. :D
A photographer hasn’t been shot yet and it’s not going to ever happen at TR. They know what they’re doing
http://sofrep.com/36718/stolen-valor-cory-alan-jackson/
USMC 20 yr , Yeager makes a ton of mistakes .