So the ACOG weapon sights have references to bible verses on them. Who cares?
What’s next? Criticism over the configuration and appearance of the reticle?
I whipped this up in photoshop today after seeing the article on SayUncle…
ABC News Article on the topic – HERE
Hat Tip: Say Uncle
Comments
34 responses to “Trijicon – Religious Aiming Solutions”
You speak in jest, but given the irrational, illogical, and absolutely misguided rage over this incident I have seen, it is only a matter of time…
Yea, things like that definitely get blown way out of proportion!
My god! And they even call it a “cross” hairs!
LOL good one Fred. :lol:
This story will only make people who buy products like this want to buy more ACOG’s. I knew about the “bible codes” long ago. Trigicon will be the only optics i purchase from now on.
I’m sure it will work both ways. There probably is a minority who are greatly offended by the verses for whatever reasons and will boycott the company’s products.
[…] Apparently, soldiers should make an effort not to offend people they’re about to kill. Meanwhile, ENDO notices another religious emblem on Trijicon products: […]
I had coincidence misspelled (for those who noticed) … but I fixed it now if you refresh.
For me personally, it doesn’t matter what mythological beliefs the producers of a product subscribe to; what matters is the quality of the product. However, I think the issue here is probably a question of whether or not it is appropriate to have items issued to soldiers with religious inscriptions on them. I see the validity of the argument that it is not.
For those that don’t believe this should be an issue, I pose this question: Would you still believe there wasn’t an issue if the military was issuing a piece of equipment to soldiers, sailors, airmen, and Marines that bore a reference to something in the Qu’ran? (Any religious text other than the bible will do here, but I imagine an Islamic one to be most offensive to those who support the current inscriptions.)
I certainly imagine there would be quite the outcry on this website (and many others) if military issued items were found to reference an Islamic religious text.
Is there anyone out there who can look at this objectively, or does everyone want to dismiss it as OK because they happen to believe the same things printed in the book that the inscription is referencing?
precisely. i’m guessing no one else here really paid attention to what the criticism of the bible verses is actually about. of course its not a problem when trijicon is on the same spiritual side a bible toting, church going men of god but if “the enemy” was putting qu’ran references on their weapons i’m sure the same people would condemn them for being fanatical extremists. if you want to have make believe invisible friends, fine, but lets not exacerbate an already dangerous situation. people will probably see this as evidence of a spiritual war against islam, inciting more terrorism.
but endless war is profitable for trijicon, so they probably dont give a shit.
Josh, you make an excellent point. I suppose I would be slightly miffed if there was a verse from the Qu’ran or another non Christian religious text on a piece of equipment.
I don’t remember the southern Baptist convention blowing up two buildings, and killing thousands, in downtown jihad town because they didn’t like non Baptist believers.
While I don’t think that “Jesus-Sights” affect the quality of the product being offered or do anything for or against the morale of their users, I agree with Josh in that I can see the validity of the arguments against Trijicon doing something like this.
With that being said, I absolutely hate the idea of this because it perpetuates the idea of gun-lovers as single-minded, Bible-Thumping, Republican morons, and obviously this does nothing for the “street-cred” of guns and their overall acceptance. I don’t like anything that can give anti-gun morons fuel for arguments against guns.
“it perpetuates the idea of gun-lovers as single-minded, Bible-Thumping, Republican morons”
Yea :( I bet that was the idea behind the whole expose` ABC news did. I bet all those anti-gun groups are plotting an angle on this story, to be used against us in the future.
Yea, lets ask the Devil Dogs and see if they care what’s on their scopes, my guess is as long as its zero-ed at 300 they don’t care! Oorah!
No doubt Yeti!
its against DOD policy (and Marine Corps by proxy) to include any religious references on its equipment. Devil Dogs don’t get a say either way.
The fact that the Ft. Hood shooter shouted Allahu Akbahr before killing a bunch of soldiers didn’t make as much press as this stupid Trijicon/Bible verse thing.
The important distinction is that the Ft. Hood shooter wasn’t acting on orders from the government when he shouted Allahu Akbahr.
It’s not the government’s job to take a position on a particular religion or to sanction a particular religious script. After reading the article (I hadn’t read the linked article before making my first post) my position is even stronger that this whole mess is a) illegal, b) one-sided, and c) counterproductive to the ideals that America was founded on. I’m actually more upset after reading the article that a company would have the audacity to put something like this on products intended for our troops.
One of the big principles this country was founded on is the principle that we all have the right and freedom to choose our own religion. That’s great. Where religion becomes a big problem is when one religion starts thinking that, for some reason, theirs is the only correct religion, and everyone else should believe what they believe. (I’ll never understand this since every religion seems equally illogical and unprovable. How does one determine that theirs is the truth???) Trijicon seems to be saying, “We believe in the Bible, so, laws be damned, we’re going to put Bible references on every product we make that’s used by servicemen who are defending our freedom to believe what we believe.” They are doing so with no regard to the beliefs of those soldiers who use their products.
I’m a little perturbed that this company, after having been awarded hundreds of millions of dollars in contracts, would sort of force their religious beliefs on American soldiers, when they had to know that doing so was, at the VERY LEAST, controversial, and they should have known it was likely against the law.
Shame on Trijicon, as a former soldier, I defended the freedoms outlined in the Bill of Rights, including the freedom to express religious beliefs. That does not, however, mean that I will stand for those beliefs being foced upon me via tools I used to defend those rights.
A split second after hitting submit, before the page refreshed, I noticed an “r” missing from the word “forced” in the last sentence… big oops.
One important thing that has to be said about Trijicon is that it is a private company. I blame this entire mess on the people that decided to give Trijicon the contracts not doing their due diligence. I’m sure Trijicon would have gladly removed the biblical references if the fate of the contract at the time depended on it. Or maybe they wouldn’t have, and that’s OK too, but then they would not have got the contract because they refused to meet the specifications. But who knows..
I agree with you to some extent that blame needs to be placed on those who awarded the contracts to Trijicon. However, Trijicon should have known that this was illegal. In fact, I would think that there is some set of guidelines that companies must follow that spells out what can and can not be done with respect to items submitted for consideration of a government contract. And what really irks me is that Trijicon seems to be totally unapologetic (which also leads me to believe that they were aware that this was a problem and chose to ignore it). They really just seem to be saying, “This is what we believe; to hell with you if you don’t agree with us.” There are plenty of soldiers who don’t believe the same things as the people at Trijicon. There are also plenty of soldiers who believe the same things as Trijicon, but who recognize that a piece of issued gear is not the place for those views.
Mike, you also seem to be as unapologetic about this mess as Trijicon. Placing the blame solely on the people responsible for issuing contracts to Trijicon. And I don’t think that Trijicon would, as you say, “have gladly removed the biblical references.”
If these references were only on items sold to the public, they should have at the very least referenced the codes in the manual; maybe on the packaging to avoid people purchasing the product and then finding out about them. There is really no good excuse for putting them on items issued to servicemen and women. I’m certainly not buying an “I didn’t know it was a problem” defense. Although their defense seems to be, “We don’t care, it’s what we believe in.”
Josh,
I am not so sure that Trijicon wouldn’t have removed the references if they were asked. Military contracts are their bread and butter because it is guaranteed money. I’d be willing to bet that the next lowest bidding company would have gladly picked up the slack if Trijicon refused. Interestingly enough both Aimpoint and Eotech do not make a sight with built in magnification. Maybe there are more U.S. companies out there that can compete with Trijicon that do, but if there are I can’t think of them off the top of my head.
I agree with you on referencing the codes in the manual, I actually wrote that also in response to Vin’s reply last night.
Found this yesterday: http://www.cafepress.com/jesusrifle
Too much awesome!
You realize that stuff like that just, as someone earlier said, “perpetuates the idea of gun-lovers as single-minded, Bible-Thumping, Republican morons…”
On the website you linked to it says, “Show your support for America and all that it stands for by wearing one of these products.”
America stands for religious freedom. America does not, or should not, stand for Christianity. Congratulations on doing your part to further the negative stereotype of the typical gun owner, or those who support gun rights.
Josh,
you seem to forget “religious freedom” is being able to wear shirts that “Show your support for America and all that it stands for by wearing one of these products.” Your too worried about what other people think. Your the only gun owner or gun right supporter that is worried about these so called “negative stereotype”. Nothing will ever change the anti-gunners mind. Most of us enjoy being gun-loving, single-minded, Bible-Thumping, Republican morons…
You know, I truly could care less as to what our enemies think of the inscriptions. The only things i want them to worry about are the 62gr rounds being shot at their asses… :)
But i find it a bit disturbing that a DOD supplier would knowingly supply troops with references to religious scripture on eqpt, when a good percentage of them are not of that particular faith. I for one am Hindu, and I served in Afghanistan with the 101st AA. I had fellow soldiers who were Athiest, Christian, Jewish, Muslim, and evan a Wiccan. They were ALL proud, patriotic Ameicans, but all chose to worship a higher power (or not) in their own ways. What gives the right to any man, woman, or company to place religious theology within a Govt organization? And it would appear that nobody know about it.. The only allowable factory marked expression should be an American flag…because if you dont believe in that, you can definately get the hell out..
Now let it be known that to my discredit, I am far from a devout Hindu, so I wont claim that touching these “Jesus sights” :} made me any less of a devotee. But I think that many soldiers, and civillians who use this product may be a bit more offended. What if a Hindu run company subvertly put verses from the Ramayan on an AR upper, or a Islamic run company with parts fom the Quaran? Or the Torah, or hell.. even a chapter from Dianetics? :} I know some of you are going to say that political correctness has no place in wartime, and I agree, but neither does religion.. Whenever history has had wars and skirmishes over religious beliefs/motivations…. the results were NEVER good. Whenever I engaged the enemy, I never did it because he was so and so of such faith, and ethnicity… it was because the so and so was an enemy of my country.
Trijicon makes excellent products, and I will not be discarding my tripower, ACOG, or ripping off the sights from my handguns :}. However, i believe it would have been in the best interests of the company to openly disclose the fact that they were inscribing religious references into their product, whatever the religion may have been, or to have not done that in the first place.
Hey Vin,
Thanks for the comment. I agree, a simple reference to the “code” in the manual would have made this whole thing a non issue. This seems to be all blowing up in their face because they tried to hide it.
Here in Israel, the IDF is using several models of the Bibicaly Encoded New Testament Referenced Trijicon scopes.
Jews in Israel have no connection (or frame of reference whatsoever) with the New Testament. Most of the IDF Servicemen that I have spoken to couldn’t care less what code Trijicon uses on their scopes as long as they shoot straight!
BTW, There a lots of great Old Testament verses that have been suggested…
DoubleTapper
Interesting article on your blog, thanks DoubleTapper!
[…] talked about the story when it first surfaced in January on a post called Trijicon – Religious Aiming Solutions which got quite a bit of attention on forums for the photoshop I […]
Late to the party, Mike, but as an atheist I could give a rat’s ass about the quotes. Hell, I didn’t even know they were there until it was pointed out in the stories about it (I have an Aimpoint, LOL).
I agree with “separation of church and state” but this, to me, is not the government advocating a religion. It’s a good scope that serves our men well. Screw it. Let it ride.
[…] Sights. There were several things I liked about these sights. First they offer more protection by brining you closer to God. Sorry I couldn’t pass that up when talking about Trijicon. The main things that caught my […]
You guys do realize these are NOT STANDARD ISSUE to a soldier. This is something that is purchased on your own and mounted on your own. Boo hoo they HAD Bible verses on them, anot Qu’ran verses. That’s the manufacturer’s choice in belief and i believe you should allow him that belief since our soldiers fight for religious freedoms in the first place. I feel if this scope had a quote from Gandhi on it you would NOT feel the way you do now about it, i imagine you would embrace it more.